並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep27-%E9%B4%95%E9%B3%A5%E5%85%88%E7%94%9F-%E5%B9%AB%E5%B9%AB%E5%BF%99-%E5%87%BA%E9%96%80%E8%A6%81%E8%B7%9F%E7%B7%8A%E7%88%B8%E7%88%B8%E5%AA%BD%E5%AA%BD/id1525687063?i=1000505280487